blog — September 14

Statement in Support of Sonali Kolhatkar

After hearing a bunch of complaints, I watched and listened to the entirety of Ted Rall’s podcast interview with Sonali in support of her new book, Breaking Ice, which releases Tuesday, September 15. Since both Sonali and Ted have been Seven Stories authors, I wanted to see for myself what had happened. Throughout the podcast, Ted and his co-host said over and over that they agreed with Sonali’s points, one after the other. There was not a single thing they disagreed with. But they seemed to agree reluctantly, which was strange, as if they were agreeing with her specific points—her critique of ICE, her championing of the responses of communities, in Minneapolis and Los Angeles and other places, that had successfully resisted ICE by finding solidarity among neighbors and fighting back—but at the same time disagreed with some larger argument which was never stated. 

Ted repeatedly said he wanted to support Sonali’s book release and identified with her as a fellow writer and author. But something was amiss. Ted and his co-host only alluded to it through two questions they kept returning to, one the question of whether Sonali agreed that governments had the right to establish borders, and the other whether immigrants ever threatened Americans’ jobs. 

Once upon a time, it was Black and Brown people who were accused of stealing jobs from white Americans. These are dog-whistle questions. And Sonali parried them well: Yes, she said, of course governments have the right to establish borders, but that doesn’t give them the right to demonize or dehumanize people who live outside them. And no, immigrants are not threatening Americans’ jobs, but they are making sure we have nurses and doctors where there is an acute shortage, and doing low-wage jobs that Americans don’t want. She also said these were fake issues created by those who benefit from wealth inequities, billionaires, and those who support the system that benefits them, so we don’t address the real issues. 

Again, there was no disagreement, but the agreement in front of the camera had a strange flavor to it. Then they thanked Sonali for coming on the show and she left. I learned a lot from her appearance. She was highly articulate, highly informed, and addressed every point the co-hosts raised. 

After she left, the show’s producer, someone named “Robbie,” came on camera. He attacked Sonali, called her a heifer, accused her of lying, attacked her over and over in bigoted and plainly racist terms, and said she should be deported.

Racists often like to say they aren’t racist. No surprise there. The main thing he was hating on Sonali for was her insistence that immigrants are not stealing American jobs. This really incensed him. And he went so far as to praise Trump for “doing the right thing in the wrong way,” with reference to ICE’s aims being “right” even if their tactics were “wrong.” Ted and his co-host laughed at Robbie, not at Sonali, but they did so good-humoredly, as you would a child who was a good kid even if a hothead. 

What was most shocking to me was Ted’s passivity. But also, the blatant hatred towards Sonali, who is a charismatic woman of color, well spoken, articulate, and highly informed, as if these were her crimes. The crudeness and violence of the far right was everywhere in the room, but unnamed—until “Robbie’s” appearance, which was sudden and revelatory. 

Watching, you could not escape thinking this: Our society is not divided today between red and blue or even workers and owners, or Left and Right. It is divided between the beneficiaries and victims of racialized economic warfare. I think this was the message. Robbie identified Sonali as his class enemy. Ted and Jamarl acted like this battle didn’t concern them, as if Robbie were a harmless, ignorant child. Historical analogies abound. What scared me most was the way reactionary and racist ideology had seeped into the arguments of the co-hosts without them even realizing it.

I’d be glad for an apology to be issued by Ted and Jamarl for how Sonali was treated on their show after she signed out. 

—Dan Simon, founder and publisher, Seven Stories Press